Crime and Punishment

      I was hoping to get some more sleep, but the conversation intruded in a way that was irritating at first, then interesting. It was interesting because it was about such fundamental matters, matters that I had thought about, but always pushed aside because they seemed never to lead anywhere. But now these two guys were at it and I was a captive listener. I didn’t know either of them, but one reminded me of what I’d read about Socrates and the Socratic Method. So I’ll call him S. The only other Greek name that comes to mind is Kostas, because of a guy I’d known at one point, so I’ll call him K. It seemed that they had been discussing some news item about the conviction of some criminal. I had no good idea of what led to this or even exactly what the relationship was between S and K. Here’s how it went.

S: I agree that what the guy did was pretty bad. What punishment is called for?

K: Something pretty severe, wouldn’t you say?

S: Yeah. What is the most severe punishment, do you think?

K: Well, obviously the death penalty. Right?

S: Does that depend on your beliefs about death? You aren’t religious, are you?

K: No, not at all. We’re animals who are born and then die.

S: So is taking a life the worst thing you can do to someone, given that he’s gonna die anyway?

K: Good point. If someone is old it isn’t as bad as for someone young, I’d say.

S: As a non-religious person, I suppose that you think that death puts someone back to where   he was before he was born, eh? Nonexistent, right?

K: Yeah, exactly.

S: So not existing, a dead person cannot be thinking, Right.

K: Right, of course. I see where you’re going, here. If he can’t be thinking, he can’t be feeling

      remorse, right?

S: Or anything else.

K: Yeah, or anything else.

S: Like, for example, pain?

K: Yeah. So death gets rid of him, but it doesn’t really punish him I guess because he isn’t even

      aware that he’s being deprived of further life. Yeah.

S: In earlier times, death was often preceded by some kind of torture, I’ve read.

K: Yes, I think so, and that makes a lot of sense if you think that the crime warrants the perp

      really being punished. Okay, I see that a death sentence itself is not the worst punishment.

S: Let’s see, going a bit further, which would be greater punishment, a lengthy period of

      torture, or immediate death?

K: Torture, certainly. Worse to be whipped every day for a month, say, than just killed outright.

S: Or for something really unthinkably terrible, maybe permanent torture?

K: You mean whippings every day for a lifetime? Jeez.

S: Or disabling or disfiguring someone. That’s what we do to soldiers, don’t we?

K: Yeah, but I don’t want to open that can of worms.

S: It is said that the worst kind of torture is mental. What do you think?

K: That’s another good point. Feeling terrible about something is terrible. I know.

S: Well, in our system here, a death sentence often results in a long period before it is carried

      out. Sometimes during that period there are appeals, creating uncertainty about the end. Is

      that better than just carrying out the sentence right away?

K: I’d say it might be worse. Imagine getting hopes up only to have them crushed. It would

      be like getting a death sentence twice.

S: So if you wanted to inflict the worst possible punishment, you could torture, then

      occasionally give the prisoner hope, then always more punishment. Yes?

K: I guess so. That sounds unbelievably cruel.

S: Getting back to the death penalty, since that isn’t the worst that can be done, when should

      be used? For less serious crimes?

K: Well, that doesn’t make any sense at all. Death for doing something not all that bad?

S: Well, if death it given, there won’t be continuing remorse or punishment, right?

K: Yeah, so how should we view death?

S: Yes, how should we view death? Don’t people fear death and try almost anything to prevent             or at least postpone it?

K: That’s for sure.

S: What is gained by that?

K: Well, longer life, obviously. More time with friends and loved ones.

S: So when someone dies, do they have regrets over losing their friends and loved one?

K: Obviously not. When you’re dead you don’t have any regrets about anything, including

      being dead, including not being with loved ones.

S: So what’s the down side of being dead?

K: Yuk, yuk. But I admit that the price is paid by friends and family, not really by the deceased. I don’t want to cause unnecessary pain for my loved ones, right?

S: Although you will at some point, won’t you?

K: Maybe not. Maybe all of your loved ones will die first

S: Now who’s being silly? Would you agree that people are inclined to make too much

      of dying? Of death?

K: Yes, I’d have to agree with that.

S: And maybe we should torture more and kill less.

K: Jeez. Let’s get a beer.

      The guys got up. I closed my eyes. And my poor brain.